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White Shadow Work to Overcome Creative Blocks - Interview with Lira Kay

We learn more about the difference between Lira’s approach as a therapist and her approach as a coach. In her answer, Lira explains how she works with archetypes.

Listen here!

In this Episode

  • [03:23] – Lira shares a bit about what she does, which is working with creative people who are experiencing creative blocks.

  • [04:51] – What are the biggest reasons why people have creative blocks?

  • [05:59] – Lira explains what, exactly, is the difference between therapy and coaching.

  • [07:03] – We learn more about the difference between Lira’s approach as a therapist and her approach as a coach. In her answer, Lira explains that she works with archetypes.

  • [08:26] – What does Lira do when she’s coaching someone and something from the past comes up? The key, she explains, is to not avoid it but to actually look at it non-judgmentally. She also reveals that she has her clients set a date for healing.

  • [10:52] – Lira goes into more detail about the healing dates that her clients set, which are usually measured in weeks rather than months or years.

  • [12:05] – Lira believes that we can live many lifetimes during the 80 or 90 years we have.

  • [13:20] – What is Lira’s definition of rebirth?

  • [15:58] – We hear what four archetypes Lira uses (artist, alchemist, architect, altruist), and how they help her provide effective coaching to her clients. She then explains that people express themselves in four different ways: fire, air, water, and earth.

  • [18:39] – Lira talks about the shadow side of the artist archetype. Orion then talks about the fact that the most successful people tend to polarize their audience rather than being liked by everybody.

  • [21:58] – What is the shadow side of the architect?

  • [23:33] – Lira discusses the shadow side of the alchemist.

  • [25:33] – We learn about the shadow side of the last of Lira’s four archetypes: the altruist.

  • [27:09] – Orion sees herself in all four archetypes, she reveals. She then discusses the connection between darkness and light.

  • [28:23] – Lira shares more about the interconnection between the archetypes and the elements.

  • [32:11] – The structure of archetypes and elements came to Lira in a dream, she reveals. She then shares more about her past and her creative process. Orion then discusses all the knowledge out there for us to tap into.

  • [35:30] – We return to the topic of rebirth, with Lira explaining that it involves accessing the collective subconscious.

  • [37:11] – Orion talks about a book by her husband, Stephan Spencer: Google Power Search.

  • [37:57] – Lira’s genius is to speak with a particular person and come up with what they need, she explains. She then talks about working with feelings with her clients, and reveals that almost all of the people she works with need help getting in touch with the physical body.

  • [41:13] – Orion switches topics a bit, asking Lira how we can get clarity in our businesses.

  • [43:10] – Lira mentions one of her books, titled I Belong: The Journey From Lost to Found.

  • [44:06] – What are Lira’s three tips to living a stellar life? 1. Be who you are, but don’t be attached to your human path. 2. Don’t hold back when it comes to experiencing and gifting people with your authentic truth. 3. Say to yourself, “I am in a process; I am all good.”

  • [45:15] – Lira talks about where people can find her (at and offers Stellar Life listeners a free gift: a session with her. To set up yours, go to this link!

About Today’s Show

Hello and welcome to Stellar Life Podcast. I’m your host Orion, founder of Orion’s Method. Do you wanna break through your blocks? Do you have any creative blocks in your business, in your life, in your love life? Do you wanna break through the chains that are holding you back? Now is the good time to change. If you wanna break through your creative blocks, the first thing you wanna do is create the awareness and the desire to break through. When the student is ready, the master will appear. You have to get over fears; fears are in the way always, everyday. As you get older, bigger, and smarter, you start to learn how to get over the fears. Sometimes the fear never goes away and we just have to feel the fear and do it anyway because all growth happens outside of your comfort zone. We’re gonna shake you up a little bit today, get you out of your comfort zone and share with you, with my guest Lira Kay, how you can get over your creative blocks. Lira Kay is an international best-selling author, life coach, inspirational consultant, and the founder of and The School of Inspired Life. Her books include I Belong: The Journey from Lost to Found. If you feel lost in an area of your life then listen in because this is gonna be very, very good for you. It’s gonna help you change and dissolve those blocks and that feeling of lost. Lira believes that this world needs your gifts and when you let go of the old you, you birth into a magnificent you the world is yet to admire. Now, onto the show. Hello Lira and welcome to Stellar Life Podcast.


Hello, how are you doing? ‏‏Perfect, busy and on fire and just loving it. ‏‏Yeah, I know you woke up really early this morning to take some calls with your clients that are overseas. ‏‏Yes, yes, that’s what I do typically. My clients everywhere in the world, I’m accommodating them sometimes, say I take late calls and sometimes the early ones, in Europe it’s after noon right now. ‏‏Why don’t you share a little bit about what you do? ‏‏I work with creative people who are experiencing a creative block. This is very serious for an artist or a writer who knows what they can do and just feeling stuck right now. For people like us, sometimes it’s a matter of life and death. What I do, I really help them to breakthrough that creative block and become an artist that they’re meant to be. That sometimes means that they would have to give birth to something incredible, letting go of something really dark and discovering some new paths. I don’t take lightly the creative block, I really understand how it can feel in terms of life is over, your creative life is over even though you live for royalties and everybody is celebrating you but there’s more to artists than just being admired. We all want to create, we want to really make an impact. I am helping my clients to be exactly that, making that impact even though it means overcoming that darkest side. There’s more to artists than just being admired. We all want to create, we want to really make an impact. CLICK TO TWEET‏‏ What are the biggest reasons why people have their creative blocks? ‏‏Fear of success. We might not want to admit that but we all have limitations, we’re humans. I call this a shadow, our human part means that we had a childhood, we had events that had happened in our lives, we had people who influenced us and we have certain beliefs that we perceive through. Even though we can perhaps do more than an average person and reach some quite amazing highs, we do have those limitations. When it comes to actually shining your truth, this is where that fear of success kicks in. Every ambition that you have will make you face your deepest fears. I love working with that, I know what it feels like and I can help you. ‏‏

What’s the difference between coaching and therapy? ‏‏I had been a therapist 20 years ago and I know exactly what the difference is. Therapy is appropriate in some ways that he is really sometimes understanding why you are blocked, why you’re feeling a certain way can be helpful. Yet when you actually have to step up and become something else, I call it rebirth of who you are. I call it also changing your karma, this is kind of bigger stuff than just psychology of your trauma or behaviors. Coaching for me, personally, gives an opportunity to touch people on such deep level and bring in the spirituality of life to actually show them the way out. ‏‏What’s the difference in your approach as a therapist to your approach as a coach? ‏‏We don’t talk for years about what had happened. I have my system where I work with archetypes. Within five minutes, I can pretty much tell you what is happening within you and why and then we go from there. That’s the difference, that instead of spending maybe a month on my couch and talking about who said what when you were five years old, it’s more like, “Okay, I know this.” We’re skipping that and we’re just heading straight ahead so I’m a futurist naturally so it really suits me to bring people to that phase of a possibility. ‏‏Have you ever had Turkish coffee? ‏‏Yeah, absolutely. ‏‏So you know there is this little mud on the bottom, that coffee mud on the bottom. I feel like in life, sometimes if we just leave the past stuff and we don’t touch it then something happens and everything stirs. The whole water becomes murky, everything becomes really confusing. What do you do when you coach somebody but something from the past or you recognize something from the past that’s showing up, how do you approach it as a coach versus a therapist? ‏‏First of all, I love when things come to the surface. My approach is certainly not to ignore, not to avoid absolutely. The key is to go and actually look at it. One of the things I do, I teach actually my clients non-judgmental attitude towards their so called darkest side. I personally don’t call it dark side but there are people who want to name it, to label it so it’s fine. Once you would look at it, I call it befriending your shadow. The process is when you actually look at yourself compassionately yet without that fear of touching it, “Oh my gosh that is unsolvable, it is so severe.” Because I don’t believe it’s severe, I’ve seen people recover from deep stuff pretty fast as soon as they decide that this is what they want, they decide to be healed. One of the things I do and I ask my clients to put a date on the healings. ‏‏

Really? That’s powerful. ‏‏We really literally schedule on the calendar the day that they will be liberated from whatever stuff they had accumulated. It is powerful and it works. ‏‏Wow, that’s powerful. Sometimes with cancer patients, the doctor will give them eight months to live and then eighth month on the dot and they will pass away. Just because they have accepted that in eight months something is gonna happen and it’s so powerfully embedded into their subconscious mind that they will just allow it to happen. I’m not judging but there is so many cases where because the doctor gave them a number and they believed that with all their heart, they actually follow that. It can be that powerful for something as painful as this but also for just deciding that in eighth month, this is the day where everything shifts for you, this is the day where you’re gonna recover, this is the day where you’re gonna get over the creative blocks and find success in your life. ‏‏Absolutely. In my cases, it’s probably not gonna be eight months, it’s probably gonna be eight weeks maximum. We do work fast only because I really show my clients what’s ahead. You can get so inspired by what’s ahead of you like hey, if we can shorten the period of suffering, they start with, “Maybe I need a year.” Then it’s like, “Okay, couple of weeks, I think in couple of weeks I’ll be fine.” Sure enough, in couple of weeks we talk about strategies to achieve what they have envisioned. It’s pretty cool after seeing people being sometimes not wanting to get out of bed. ‏‏It’s about creating your future from your future and not creating your future from the past like you’re living your life driving and looking in the rearview mirror the whole time instead of looking at the road ahead. When you base your life on your compelling future rather than the pain of the past. ‏‏

I do believe that we can live many lifetimes within this period of what they were, 90, 80 years we have. It’s possible to completely change your karma, your path, it’s possible to transform. This is how we start our conversations. You can totally be different and don’t be afraid to leave whatever you have behind because all of those attachments, it’s just attachment to your ego part, the human part, the one you know. It’s possible to completely change your karma, your path, it’s possible to transform. ‏‏

What’s your definition of rebirth? ‏‏Just what I said, experiencing another life within this lifetime. ‏‏Can you tell me more about it because I still don’t understand it. ‏‏It’s on every possible levels. If we’re talking about the human mind, the mind that you have, partially it is the experience that you had and it’s the beliefs that you have about yourself and how you see yourself. On another level, mind also includes actually of course your spiritual path and you have access to knowledge and wisdom and really the knowing of who you truly are. Can you let go of that ego mind, of that limited mind and open up to a bigger vision of yourself, that’s what we’re talking about when I’m talking about rebirth on that kind of intellectual level or mind level. On the other hand, there’s feelings. One of the workshops I did, I do many but actually last weekend I did one, I talked about expanding the spectrum of your feelings. Even as artists, artists have normally a much richer palette of the feelings that they experience on a daily basis. Actually, there’s so much more we can open up to. It’s so much fun, there’s so many ways to do that, to experience life in a different way. What I’m talking about, it’s getting out of one particular archetype that you are living right now and stepping into something next. Something next, what I’m really showing to people but you can totally create it. It doesn’t have to be something fixed. You can pick and choose how you want to show up in this world, what kind of artist you want to be, how people will perceive you, what kind of shadow you will have, it’s so much fun to play with that. Makeover, people do like makeovers as well, this is great, changing your image. ‏‏

That sounds awesome. Can you share a bit about your archetypes? You said you had four and you pretty much put people in four general boxes, of course everybody is more than the box or the archetype. But usually, some people have those general traits. What are your archetypes? ‏‏

The 4 particular archetypes I like to work with and then depending on the dynamic of that particular person, we would have another sub multiply by 4, we have 16 altogether. That would really show you what your deepest fears and deepest desires are. The tendencies of your shadow like how would you recognize that you are actually sabotaging yourself right now while you might be thinking you are really creating something or going somewhere. The artist, an alchemist, an architect, and an altruist. I really channelled the whole archetypes. Once I started looking at what I’ve really seen, what I recognize is that the artist archetype are the people, an artist, let’s say when we’re talking about really the artistic types, creative types, inventors, people like that. They would be driven by the feelings. They would really care about relationships. If we’re talking about architect, those are the mind oriented people, they are driven by ideas. There’s alchemist, people who really want to see the legacy of what they created, almost with their own hands. We have altruist, people who are driven by purpose. They want to actually help others. We have different ways that people express that. If you pulled water people, fire people, or earth people, this is in short how I look at the archetypes and what I offer to different kind of couple of questions I offer to people to really put them to really quickly see what would be driving them. ‏‏I really like that view of archetypes and then breaking it down to air, water, fire, and earth like breaking it down to the elements, it’s really brilliant. What is the shadow side of each one of them? Obviously, when we’re looking in the artist who’s driven by relationship and feelings, it sounds really good but there is always a shadow to everyone and this is what you’re doing. You’re working with the shadow, I assume, my hallucination is that you work with a shadow of each archetype. ‏‏Yes. You told yourself, it’s like it would be somebody who as soon as they are faced with for example, being disapproved in some ways, you would recognize, where is my fear of success? If I talked with you and you with that artist was driven by feelings and really cares about relationships, your biggest fear would be to be left alone, they hate that. When we do this deep shadow work, the fear that people would come up is this, “I’m really afraid of ending up alone.” It’s on a surface, it doesn’t make sense. People have fans, they have so many people who love them and admire them yet they would prevent going to the next level just because they are so afraid to lose all that because stepping up often means changing the way people will perceive you. If you start just even imagining that, how terrifying that could be for somebody. If I want to make this artwork, if I want to make this project but it means that perhaps not all of my fans will follow me or like me, that’s the dilemma they are living with, that’s just an example. ‏‏Yeah, it’s brilliant. It’s also true for an artist in business where there is always that we want to be everything to everybody. The truth is when you polarize your audience, when you’re not everything to everybody and you’re just like this is the best thing for some few individuals. When I say few, it can be thousands and hundreds of thousands and it can be really few but it looks like the most successful people will polarize the audience, some people will love them and die for them and some people will completely hate them. ‏‏

Absolutely, absolutely. You know what? It’s interesting that when you actually get to the root of the problem of that particular feeling, let’s say that fear, this is what a therapist would really discover maybe within a year or month of work is that, “Okay, perhaps you have a complicated relationship with your mom or dad, it’s just somebody may be critical and you actually lived for approval.” It’s so basic but we all have that. If your heart, if your soul had been born into the family where you were challenged, in order to survive, you really had to fit into the particular environment, this particular group of people, well there you are. When you are faced with your most amazing dream and you really see yourself go there, it comes up again, you are triggered. In order to survive, you really had to fit into the particular environment, this particular group of people, well there you are. CLICK TO TWEET‏‏What’s the shadow part of the alchemist? I know you had two more. ‏‏Architect, I just love that. I’m near San Francisco here, a lot of start-ups. I see this and I love working with people like that. The big ideas people, the biggest fear they have is to be trapped, is to lose their independence and their freedom. ‏‏That’s so powerful, wow. ‏‏It’s amazing. Ego, our ego, the egos get really triggered by somebody just trying to limit them in some ways. Sometimes, those are just the practical ways like how to setup a startup that would be profitable instead of just cutting edge, there’s a whoa, just like that, they would go ballistic.” They end up because it’s not good for business. It’s not necessarily good for getting that idea to the world. They do need to know how to tame the shadow and really work with it, working with teams, there’s so much. So much would be affected by the shadow just going crazy on them. ‏‏What about the other two? ‏‏

Alchemist, the people who need to be doing stuff. One of the things they would be saddened with is to be not able to see the results of their work. Time, time is a big issue for them. Typically, that’s what I teach them is to recognize that their shadow is in full motion right now and bleeding is when they are feeling super impatient. ‏‏They want immediate gratification. ‏‏Immediate gratification, they are terrible with their teams. Typically, they would be the natural born leaders because people really love their charisma, they love their drive, they love the fact that alchemists know the craft, they can go, they can enter the implementation of anything within their big business or corporation. But when the shadow kicks in, they just want to take control and they have tendency to manipulate because they need stuff done now or yesterday, yesterday would be better than now. Of course most people who are working under them is like what’s up because they may have their own shadows but we’re not talking about them. The point is how do you find that balance? We work with time, I have amazing processes, how to work with time, how can you experience time differently that you’re not always in a rush because it’s stressful. Stress, it’s not good for your health. Altruists, altruists, those guys are amazing. On one hand, those are the people who want to gift the world. They are there to be the most compassionate, the most giving people of our time yet when the shadow kicks in, shadow wants power, it’s the darkest side of that giving, it’s having power at whatever cost. Not having power, being deprived of power would drive an altruist to despair. It’s kind of interesting because one of the things, if you are one of those altruist, the purpose driven people, how would you recognize that you would see yourself feeling guilty? The guilt is one of those things that shadow will put on you because there’s a conflict, there’s a conflict of beliefs on one hand where your beliefs and desires, one of them is I want to give unconditionally to everybody or to as many people as possible in this world. There’s another one like if I’m not filled up, I need to receive and if it’s not happening, I will make them give me. That’s the kind of dilemma they live. It’s hard because those people are much more perhaps conscious of what their gift in the world really means, what does it mean to the world. That’s where the guilt comes from. ‏‏I see myself in all four archetypes. I’m like, “Holy, I have so many shadows.” I believe that it’s like that. It’s there, the yin and yang. When you grow in one area, your shadow will grow with you. It’s like the biggest trap of spiritual people is, “I am so spiritual.” For example the more you expand in one area, the more you have to deal with a bigger shadow. I feel like even now it’s happening globally in the world, the more the dark is rising, the more there are more movement for the light, it’s always like that. It’s just an expansion as our destiny as a human race is expanding, our destiny as human beings is expanding, the darkness and the light is expanding equally. It’s very interesting, how do you take those archetypes? Let’s say let’s give an example of one, let’s say the artist, what’s the different elements in the artist as far as the fire, earth, water, wind? ‏‏The differences would be how would you see that person. I have fun nicknames for all of them but I just don’t have them in front of

me right now. Briefly, an artist who is an air, that’s very much like myself actually, again is a passionate artist who is just very, very quick, very dynamic, it moves fast, it’s very light, I think it’s a channel. I call those people channel, they’re like myself. We are very easy to pick up things psychically kind of we know. If you go, for example, compare it to a water artists, those would be people who are obsessively looking at nuances. They actually have really rich pallet, the spectrum of the feelings they experience, for example. But they could be trapped with that, I’m not really laughing at them, I’m laughing with them because I’m the same. I can feel myself and being in different periods of time, experiencing those different archetypes. I remember obsessively editing some pages of my novel and it’s kind of funny, it’s because,

“Wow, was that really so important, that word?” But they can really get obsessive about that word, it needs to be exact. You have fire, they want immediate gratification, they want to see, they want to see the ripple effect, and they’re looking for reaction from other people because they’re all relationship driven so you would have people definitely involved. We have the earth artist, I call them Mafiosos. They are so grounded. If they are creating something, it’s not going to be just the little thing, it needs to be whoa, it need to be big and monumental and they will do anything to make it happen because they can get stuck with it. Sometimes the actual project does not require that. you see, that’s because we’re talking about shadows, we’re talking about those things where people can get stuck like insisting on something to beat that particular way. I always bring into the common sense, of course, obviously. I talk about what is the good thing to do for the good of all, not just for your ego. I say that happiness is a combination of fulfilling your ego needs and also living your highest purpose, reaching out that potential that you have. We have both, I’m not saying completely ignore what you feel like needs to be done but I’m just saying, for the sake of your project, sometimes you need to let it go. ‏‏How did you come up with those archetypes and all those sub archetypes? ‏‏I dreamt it. ‏‏Really? Was it like a download? ‏‏Yeah, yeah. I’m a real channeler, I started, I think the first time at least that I remember, I was four years old. I actually saw a lot of interesting visions of Mandalas. Later on when I studied psychology, of course I was fascinated by [00:33:52] because I saw in fact in the same Mandalas in his red book, I was like, “Oh my gosh, this is what I’ve seen when I was four years old.” They were floating around. My mom is a doctor, so she was really freaking out so I didn’t really share or talked to anybody about that, but I always had that ability to get some kind of a quick profound understanding of things. Later on in my late teens, I started training and meditating and channeling and actually writing those things down and making art as well as anything else with that. Having dreams where I would see the processes or have those archetypes fully formed is not something unusual, I wrote my dissertation in college this way. It’s just the way I am and I love it. But that’s the truth, I’d love to be, “Oh my gosh, I know so much, I’m so smart.” I may be but that’s just mainly thanks to my kind of ability to get that information, get that access pretty fast. ‏‏

I love that, I love that you said that because we are more than what we know or learn or can learn in a lifetime. We are our ancestors. We are astral. We are multidimensional. That’s what I believe. Even me, when I coach my clients, sometimes in the middle of the session, in my mind I’ll just open up and say like, “What do they need? How can I help them?” I feel like I’m connecting to the universal Google and I will get the download. I’ll know exactly what to say because it’s more than me. I’m helping, coaching, assisting, when I just open myself as the vessel to allow divine guidance to flow through me, it’s so much more effective than what my few years on planet earth. It can provide to that person when there is this knowledge that is so ancient of millions and bazillions and trillions of years floating around. What I think is interesting is that there is this new age and new things and new breakthroughs. If you look at ancient wisdoms like Kabbalah for example, it’s all freaking self-development like this knowledge, this expansion, this knowing is existing out there and it’s not only tapping into millions of years of knowledge, it’s also tapping into the collective subconscious mind and channeling. ‏‏Absolutely, absolutely so well said, absolutely. When you asked me about rebirth, this is what I’m talking about. It’s not necessarily going somewhere you are not, it’s actually accessing really that collective subconsciousness but seeing yourself beyond this human part, that’s what I’m talking about. In terms of therapy, it doesn’t allow you to go anywhere further than what you lived in here, in this physical world. I actually have not met anybody who would truly believe that that’s all they are, that they are consequences of traumas or whatever, whatever the